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Post by katt on Feb 8, 2013 16:52:37 GMT -5
Okay, well then in that case I propose a change of approach but for this you MUST, I repeat MUST be able to watch them and make sure they are eating. Kits are tummies with teeth, they should eat almost anything you put in front of them. They are also not going to have insulinoma at the ripe old age of 4 months, so a few hours without food shouldn't hurt them at all. Feed them some kibble soup, make sure they each eat a little. Remove their food - ALL of it - for about 2-3 hours (3 tops). After a few hours have passed, put the RAW soup bowl in the cage. First dab a little on each of their tongues, and maybe spoon or finger feed a little but Don't stress them out by hand feeding too long. They are GOING to be wiggly, they are kits who don't want to sit still. If you have salmon or fish oil, or ferrettone, you can mix a little of that into the soup to make it a bit more enticing. After hand feeding them each a Small amount, put them in the cage and WATCH them. From a distance is possible or they'll be too busy trying to get mom's attention to play. If you can sit in the room and watch TV or read or unpack or something that is good. Just keep an eye on them on your peripherals. They should get hungry enough to eat the food. We don't typically take this approach anymore with ferrets simply because so many have unknown histories and may have insulinoma, a disease with which if they don't have food every few hours the ferret will go into a blood glucose (BG) crash. As kits, they should not have this problem, they haven't been on crappy kibble nearly long enough to have developed any BG issues. Let me know how long it takes them to eat. If after 3-4 hours they still aren't eating the raw soup (make sure they are awake and hungry, not just going back to bed to sleep for a few hours haha), mix some kibble soup into the raw soup - just a little. If they still won't eat that, add a little more in small increments until they will eat it. Please let me know immediately how they do.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2013 16:58:58 GMT -5
OK thanks
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Post by katt on Feb 9, 2013 12:41:00 GMT -5
How did it go?
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Post by katt on Feb 9, 2013 14:09:46 GMT -5
Really need an update..
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2013 19:10:09 GMT -5
I'm sorry but I have been throwing up most of today and was sick last night as well. As I said before, I'm having some problems.
That being said, I don't feel as though I can be as consistent as needed at this exact point in time. I never know when I will be sick and when I will be ok. Did not mean for this to coincide with this switch and had I known this was going to happen I would have waited to sign up.
So I apologize for inconvenience but I'm stopping for now.
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Post by katt on Feb 9, 2013 19:58:03 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2013 21:43:20 GMT -5
Thank you. Sorry again to back out. Ill still be working with them when I can, but with whatever is going on, it's been hard. They've been on Wysong Epigen 90 for a while now, and one o those lists has it as #1. Ill look at them closer at work since my phone moves slow. Thank you for everything.
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Post by katt on Feb 10, 2013 12:09:41 GMT -5
No problem. I'm sorry again that you are not feeling well. Just let us know when you are ready to try again. Take care of yourself first! As for the kibble, it is best to feed them a variety of kibbles (at least 2-3). This way if there is a change in recipe, or one is discontinued you are not suddenly facing changing them onto new kibble with no old kibble and they are all imprinted on their food and won't eat - that can be dangerous. :S
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2013 17:05:31 GMT -5
Yikes didnt think of that!! Thanks!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2013 11:07:33 GMT -5
I'm guessing that trying commercial raw would be the same process? I know you mentioned you haven't done anything with that. Was thinking it might be easier for me to be consistent with, though? Trying to do what's best here, even through out my own health issues.
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Post by katt on Feb 11, 2013 13:10:49 GMT -5
Commercial raw is a great option. Freeze dried raw is too. I have worked with both. I certainly have no problems continuing with whatever kind of switch you may want to do, even if it's just getting them on a better kibble. It's all up to you. The soup still has to be made either way. There are just certain steps that require particular attention. Like if you are going to take the food away like I mentioned in the one post, it HAS to be on a day that you KNOW you can monitor them. You would be surprised how often we have had people do ridiculous things that ended up harming their ferrets. That's why it's so strict now as far as check ins. I know you wouldn't just starve them all day though. lol It is up to you. I am still more than happy to work with you. Some switches just go really slow, that's how it is. There is nothing wrong with that.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2013 14:21:44 GMT -5
I am more concerned about my ability to be consistent with them. And yes I would definitely be present to monitor that haha i wouldn't just leave them with no foods! I'm just worried about what went on this weekend - I was unexpectedly bound to the bathroom and couch so I was not able to do anything with them other than let them out and run on my head ha. I'm expecting slow and I'm fine with that, I Just don't want to end up unsuccessful due to inconsistency if that makes sense. The commercial raw may be easier since I'm having a hard time finding good parts. And if it's just a pre-packaged thing that I would have to chunk in the blender, then that would be easier for me on my no-good days than chopping up and measuring out and what not. I want to do whatever will work, and will cause you the least frustration with me. If the commercial raw/freeze dried will work, then I will just have to figure out what kinds and order it.
I also have a concern about Sydney. On Saturday evening I heard her making strange noises so went over the cage (they had been asleep) and she was up, heaving, and right as I was walking up she projectile vomited. It was strictly liquid, no chunks of anything. She seemed fine after that, ran around and played as usual, and ate. I noticed yesterday she didn't play as LONG as she usually does, and any time we picked her up, she just kind of went with it. She's our live wire and usually is the one who wants to get away and wriggle around and play so I'm just kind of worried. She ate and drank this morning, but then just laid there and watched me in the kitchen through the cage, where as she's usually jumping around trying to get my attention. She's also made a sound that I can't determine is hacking, coughing, sneezing, or a mix of the three. They go to the vet a week from today, but was wondering if this sounds more like cold/flu symptoms, or something more serious? I've looked here on the forum and utilized Google but came up with very little. My boyfriend thinks she's fine, but I'm worrying away.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2013 20:53:27 GMT -5
Nevermind I'm home and she's perfectly fine ha
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Post by katt on Feb 12, 2013 3:48:46 GMT -5
I am more than happy to continue working with you. The biggest thing is that you are able to watch them. If you don't have the time to hand feed them a meal, you need to give them the step before if - what they WILL eat. It will make things slower, but there is no reason the switch cannot still be completed. The younger you switch them the better. My big concern right now is as young as they are I REALLY think you should be able to switch them all cold turkey without *too* much trouble but you have to be able to watch them. The key is to let them get really hungry, and help them taste the new food (raw soup) and let them stay hungry until they eat it. But you have to be able to watch them enough to know a) that they will ALL eat, b) that if they won't all eat at a certain point they need their other food back. Then (I suppose this counts as c lol or b.5) if they won't eat the raw food, IDEALLY you would add kibble soup into the raw until it is a ratio they will accept. This method doesn't require consistency at all, since it is only done over a day (afterwards we will move to the next steps of course). But what it does require is ATTENTION during that day (the last portion of the day to be specific). So if you can pick a day that you feel well enough to try this, I think it is worth a shot. Normally we don't use this method very often anymore because ferrets might have undiagnosed insulinoma, but your crew are far too young for that. I think that hunger will be the perfect motivator for them. With kits, that's usually all it takes. Now if you don't think you can do that, we can obviously go the slow and steady way (which may end up being what we do anyways if they don't like the Eat What You Get method haha). That's not a problem at all. Again the stipulation being if you can't ensure they are eating soupie A, you need to be able to know this and be okay I am not well enough to hand feed them so tonight they get soupie B. As for the commercial raw, do you have a supplier nearby? If not you can certainly order some. Commercial raw is a fantastic way to go, you can always feed a combination of commercial raw and frankenprey (grocery store meat in a prey-proportioned balanced diet - what most people refer to as raw diet or RMB or BARF). Many people use a mix of the two. Another thing to keep in mind is that this all gets MUCH easier after they are switched. I buy meat in bulk all at once. I take one day and prepare all of the meat, chop and divide it up, and separate it into sandwich sized ziplock bags. Then I put those into the freezer and voila! All done, no more work for me for several months! I simply take a bag out and put it in the fridge to thaw a day ahead, or offer it frozen (this is a good ay to give some stimulating variety in meal presentation). It's all up to you. I can and have worked with it all. (*the only think I do not do is mixed kibble and raw diets). Frankenprey, commercial raw, freeze dried - you can mix and match them as you please. As far as commercial raw suppliers, there is a thread for that here: www.holisticferret60.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=rawwholepreyprovHare Today is a popular one I do hope that you decide to stick with it. As I said I am more than happy to keep working with you, and am no stranger to slow switches. As long as you keep me as updated as possible, and are willing to stick with it, we should have little trouble. The ball is in your court!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2013 10:12:37 GMT -5
OK I was digging around all sorts of hours yesterday trying to find that thread you posted for commercial raw. Let me hop on there and see what I can get. I tried to find suppliers in the area as well, but as suspected, there aren't any that don't just have it for cats and dogs I think this will help me out for a while and then hopefully I can eventually get them to the raw-raw. or BARF or whatever the technical term is. I'd like them to have both. Let me see what kind of shipping time I'll be looking at for the commercial raw, and let you know when I'm ready to shove forward. If I can get it by this weekend, I *should* be able to watch them the last half of the day Saturday and all day Sunday. I'd ask my boyfriend to do it the first half of Saturday but 1) he has his daughter this weekend and 2) he's convinced now that the ferts are giving us the stomach problems. I don't get home until almost 7 pm every night and they have kibble in their cage all day, so I figured (and correct me if I'm wrong) it'd be best to do it a whole day over the weekend then move forward from there in the evenings, when I know I can leave whichever soup in the cage all day while at work. Sorry I flipped out over the weekend, was just stressed out with not feeling well and not knowing what's going on with me. My boyfriend thought I was insane because I got all teary and was all "THIS GIRL IS GOING TO HATE ME!!" *EDITING* OK I ordered ground Venison, chicken, rabbit, and turkey (since it had to be 5 lbs). 2 lbs of chicken since you said it's the best to use starting out, and 1 lb of the rest. it all says bones and organs included, and it should be here in 3 days, so I'm guessing Friday-ish? When I use this, do I just put any amount in the blender with a little warm water?
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